Michael B. Jordan (left) and Denzel Washington chat at the Lambs Club in Manhattan. When Mr. Jordan made his breakthrough in the movie “Fruitvale Station,” he was compared to a young Denzel Washington.Credit...Andrew White for The New York Times

Table for Three

Passing the Torch: Denzel Washington and Michael B. Jordan

Mr. Washington, next in “The Iceman Cometh” on Broadway, and Mr. Jordan, the “Black Panther” star, discuss their idols, black superheroes and #MeToo.

“It was a big highlight,” Michael B. Jordan said, then looked down shyly into his lap.

The actor was explaining what it meant to him when film critics wrote that his breakthrough performance in “Fruitvale Station,” five years ago, reminded them of a young Denzel Washington. Possibly complicating matters was the fact that Denzel Washington was sitting next to him at the table.

“When someone says you’re like your idol,” Mr. Jordan said, “It’s like: ‘Really? You see that in me?’ I’d only done that one movie. But then I started using it as motivation,” he said. “I wanted to pop up on Denzel’s radar. He’s the O.G. If I could get recognition from him, I know I’m going down the right path, you know?”

Finally, Mr. Washington broke in with a booming laugh: “And here we are, Mike! Looks like it’s working out already,” he said.

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Mr. Jordan: “I want people to see me win. I want audiences to see me ending up on top — not dying. I want to be the leading man.”Credit...Andrew White for The New York Times

In truth, it would be hard for an actor to choose a better role model than Mr. Washington. In a career spanning more than 40 years and 50 films — and kicked off by the hit TV drama “St. Elsewhere” — Mr. Washington, 63, has been nominated for nine Academy Awards. He won twice: for best actor as a terrifying rogue cop in “Training Day” and for best supporting actor as a Union soldier in an African-American army unit in “Glory.” And he was nominated for best actor Oscars in both of the last two years.

In the past decade, Mr. Washington has ruled the stage, too. He won a Tony Award for best actor in the revival of August Wilson’s “Fences” in 2010, later directing and starring in an Oscar-nominated film version. He led the acclaimed revival of “A Raisin in the Sun” in 2014. And on April 26, he will open again on Broadway in a revival of Eugene O’Neill’s play “The Iceman Cometh,” a searing and (at four hours long) monumental drama about the lies we tell ourselves to get through life.

Like Mr. Washington, Mr. Jordan, 31, got his big break on television: on HBO’s “The Wire,” when he was just 15. After his heartbreaking performance in “Fruitvale Station,” about the last day in the life of a transit-police shooting victim, he starred in the popular “Rocky” reboot “Creed.” And earlier this year, he played the villain, Erik Killmonger, in the Marvel juggernaut “Black Panther,” winning perhaps the best reviews of anyone in the extremely well-reviewed cast.

Next month, he stars in “Fahrenheit 451” on HBO, a dystopian film based on the novel by Ray Bradbury. Mr. Jordan plays a “fireman,” part of a state-sanctioned brigade that hunts down readers and burns books. His company, Outlier Society Productions, is one of the film’s producers and also among the first to adopt inclusion riders, requiring diversity among cast and crew, as called for by Frances McDormand from the stage of this year’s Academy Awards.

Over a cocktail hour at the Lambs Club in Manhattan (a Diet Coke for Mr. Washington, a sauvignon blanc for Mr. Jordan), the actors traded notes about creating characters and the socially minded work that really matters to them. These are excerpts from the conversation.

PHILIP GALANES If Mike reminds people of a young Denzel, who did young Denzel remind people of?

DENZEL WASHINGTON I never saw it that way. I never even thought about movie stars. My goal was to be on Broadway, to earn $650 a week. My hero was James Earl Jones. And I came to acting green. I was taking pre-law courses, then journalism courses. Then I took an acting class and got bit by the bug. So I came down to Lincoln Center and saw plays and stage actors.

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Mr. Jordan, left, and Kevin Durand in the 2013 film “Fruitvale Station,” directed by Ryan Coogler.Credit...Ron Koeberer/Weinstein Company

GALANES But all those things you did — law, journalism, acting — they’re all about getting to the bottom of a story, right?

WASHINGTON I like that part: building a character. You start with the material that gives you clues. If you’re playing a boxer, you want to throw out punches. If you’re playing a conductor, you want to get on a train.

GALANES And the script?

WASHINGTON Sure, but you don’t know who the character is just by reading the script. I don’t read a script and go, “Now, I get it!” That’s just the beginning. The first thread you pull.

MICHAEL B. JORDAN The script tells you what’s going up on screen. But the biggest part, the fun part, is figuring out what happened to that character before Page 1 of the script. What kind of food does he like? Did he get into fights going to school? That back story determines the choices you make within the confines of the script. And going through that process with the director is a big part of the collaboration. Now I’ve got notebooks and notebooks of back stories. Some directors may want you to add something or change your version. That’s when you try to find common ground.

GALANES Is that why you’ve both worked with directors repeatedly? Mike with Ryan Coogler; Denzel with Spike Lee and Antoine Fuqua. Your common ground?

WASHINGTON [laughing] Maybe they’re the ones who called. What you’re saying is part of it, but I don’t think it’s just one way.

JORDAN Those are the roles I was lucky enough to get. Ryan and I have worked together three times, and I have a really close relationship with him. But I said no to lots of other things with other people in-between. They weren’t right. Personally, I think you’re defined by what you say no to.

WASHINGTON I say yes to everything!

GALANES Why do I doubt that? Managing a career as big as yours must take a lot of work.

WASHINGTON Not now. Maybe early on. Now, I just do what I want to do. And you don’t want to walk down the same road twice. I’m sure after doing “Iceman Cometh,” I won’t be looking to do another play.

JORDAN For a minute.

WASHINGTON Yeah, not for a while.

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Mr. Washington: “There were no black superheroes when I was growing up. But I’m still in the race. And I’m passing the baton.”Credit...Andrew White for The New York Times

GALANES You’re too young to remember this, Mike. But early in his career, Denzel was so beloved for playing good guys — in “Glory” and “Cry Freedom” — that we all freaked out when he started playing villains: in “Training Day,” “American Gangster.” And he was even better at bad guys! Was that about walking down different roads?

WASHINGTON I grew up right here in New York. Trust me, “Training Day” was a lot closer to who I was than a lot of the others. It wasn’t a stretch for me. And the original script was more like “Lethal Weapon.” But when Antoine [Fuqua] came on board, he brought this whole L.A. gangster thing to it. That wasn’t even in the script. But I went with it.

JORDAN So much trickles down from the director. That’s why I try to choose the ones who make the best environments to work in, so we can maybe make something as good as “Training Day.” You don’t want to go into a project with somebody who won’t be helpful to your process — or vice versa.

GALANES I read this funny thing about you, Mike: You started choosing projects where you wouldn’t die in the end?

JORDAN It started with my mom, who’s superemotional. When I shot my death scene in “The Wire,” she was on set. And the P.A.’s kept coming to me and saying: “You may want to check on your mom.” I go see her, and she’s sitting there bawling. I’m just a kid. I’m going, “Come on, Ma. You’re embarrassing me.” And after “Fruitvale Station,” I was like, “Man, this is really affecting her.” But there was another thing, too. Look at Denzel’s career. I want people to see me win. I want audiences to see me ending up on top — not dying. I want to be the leading man.

WASHINGTON How old are you?

JORDAN 31.

WASHINGTON Man, I got underwear older than that.

JORDAN That was the real thought process: How do I become a leading man? I know phenomenal actors who can’t open movies overseas. How do you become the guy who can carry a film?

WASHINGTON So, you study the game?

JORDAN You, Will Smith, Tom Cruise, Leo [DiCaprio]. You guys are my models. You’re all your own person, and you all have great qualities that make you “that guy.” So, how do I take what I have in me and create my version of that?

GALANES Is that why you went the superhero route?

JORDAN Without a doubt. International markets are key for me. So, when I get a chance, I’m taking it. “The Fantastic Four” was superimportant, regardless of how it turned out. [The 2015 film was a critical and commercial failure.] A million things have to go right for a movie to be successful, and actors don’t control a lot of them.

GALANES You probably made up for it with “Black Panther.” Why no superheroes for you, Denzel?

WASHINGTON Nobody asked.

JORDAN That’s crazy! Really?

GALANES Superheroes have changed. When Denzel might have played one, they were dull. The villains were interesting: Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger. Like you in “Black Panther,” Mike.

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Denzel Washington, right, as the rogue police officer Alonzo in the 2001 movie “Training Day.” Washington won a best actor Oscar for the role.Credit...Robert Zuckerman/Warner Bros.
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In the movie “Black Panther,” T’Challa (Chadwick Boseman) and Erik Killmonger (Mr. Jordan) battle.Credit...Marvel/Disney

WASHINGTON When I was a teenager, “Shaft” and “Super Fly,” those were our superheroes. I remember watching “Super Fly” with my boy Carl, and when we got back to the projects, he carved the character’s name — Priest — on the elevator door. And Richard Roundtree in those long leather coats in “Shaft.”

GALANES Both of your new projects are dark. “Iceman Cometh” is brutal. And in “Fahrenheit 451,” competing ideas are so scary that people decide to burn all the books and kill the readers. Why choose them now?

JORDAN I was shooting “Black Panther,” down in Atlanta, when I first saw the script for “Fahrenheit.” I didn’t want to do it at all. I didn’t want to play an authority figure — especially with what’s going on with the police in my community. I didn’t want to play an officer who was oppressing people. But then I had lunch with the director [Ramin Bahrani], and he talked me through his vision, what the movie would be about. And slowly, I changed my mind.

GALANES It’s powerful to watch a black man in your role.

JORDAN But it wasn’t all there on the page. I needed to make sure that he was willing to collaborate, to change some things to help me, as a black man, feel more comfortable in that role. And my company’s co-producing it alongside HBO was important to me too. This is my first time working with the director and the network, giving my opinion and hoping that it’s taken seriously.

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Mr. Jordan: “I want to take care of my family financially and grow my production company. That’s the big thing I want to do: set my family up.”Credit...Andrew White for The New York Times

WASHINGTON (laughing) Getting your big boy voice.

GALANES Like coming back to the stage, Denzel?

WASHINGTON Well, this is my third play with [producer] Scott Rudin. We did “Fences” and “Raisin in the Sun,” and now we developed “Iceman Cometh” together. Every four or five years, I want to do something onstage, and he does all the heavy lifting. We put together a list of possible plays: “King Lear,” “Coriolanus,” “Iceman,” a few more.

GALANES All tragedies?

WASHINGTON Yeah. Then we boiled it down to “Iceman” and “King Lear.” And he said: “Let’s do ‘Lear’ five years from now.” I said: “O.K., we’ll do that next — God willing.”

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Michael Shannon, left, and Mr. Jordan in the HBO movie “Fahrenheit 451.” Mr. Jordan plays a “fireman,” part of a state-sanctioned brigade that hunts down readers and burns books.Credit...Michael Gibson/HBO

GALANES But why “Iceman”?

WASHINGTON Eugene O’Neill. That simple. The chance to interpret his brilliant material. You know, my first role on stage, when I was a student at Fordham, was in “The Emperor Jones.” I’ve always loved O’Neill. And here I am, 40 years later, coming back to him in “Iceman.”

GALANES Your character, Hickey, seems like the life of the party at first, but what a tortured soul he turns out to be. What drew you to him?

WASHINGTON His desire to see people happy. Even when he knows he can’t make that happen, that desire is still there in him.

GALANES It’s a mountain of a play — four hours long. Is it hard to maintain that intensity every night?

WASHINGTON Listen, this is what I love: acting on stage. And I don’t have to do anything else. Just be in this play. So, don’t feel sorry for me compared to most workers in America.

GALANES Is theater on your radar, Mike?

JORDAN Down the line. But right now, I want to take care of my family financially and grow my production company. That’s the big thing I want to do: set my family up.

GALANES Why’s that?

JORDAN As a kid, you don’t see your circumstances. I didn’t. It’s not until you look back and think, “Man, we were poor!” My parents really hid that from me. They kept me safe.

GALANES You had a tough situation, too, Denzel.

WASHINGTON It wasn’t that tough. I was having a good time. A lot of my boys went to prison.

JORDAN That’s why I want to take care of my family now. Then let me go and work on my craft, do something to fulfill me on the inside. That’s what I think theater is going to be for me — when I’m older. What do you love about it, Denzel?

WASHINGTON The energy from the audience is immediate. And you get to develop a full life. See, in film, you might shoot the end first, then the middle. But on stage, it’s the full score of the character’s life. And you always get another night.

GALANES Meaning?

WASHINGTON In film, you don’t get another night to shoot a scene. You can try to fix it in other scenes. But film is a director’s medium. Theater is for actors. We’re directed, but once the curtain goes up, it belongs to us. And every night’s as different as the audience. Some nights, they cheer the whole way through; others, they don’t cheer at all.

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Mr. Washington, left, as Troy Maxson and Viola Davis as Rose in the August Wilson play “Fences” at the Cort Theater in New York. Mr. Washington won a Tony for the role.Credit...Sara Krulwich/The New York Times
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Anika Noni Rose, left, as Beneatha Younger, Sophie Okonedo as Ruth Younger and Mr. Washington as Walter Lee Younger in the play “A Raisin in the Sun” at the Ethel Barrymore Theater in New York.Credit...Sara Krulwich/The New York Times

GALANES Let me shift gears. We’re living through a time right now where men in power who’ve done ugly things —

WASHINGTON No. We’re not “living through a time right now.” It’s always been this way, from the beginning of time. Pick one: from Caesar to Caligula. Now, it’s just on the news cycle every 15 seconds.

JORDAN And opinion is now fact — because anyone with a Twitter handle can say it.

WASHINGTON It doesn’t even have to be true; it just has to be first.

GALANES Hang on, I’m asking something different: Based on your years as a powerful figure, why do you think some guys turn to ugly behavior, and others don’t?

WASHINGTON Nobody’s perfect, man. Don’t put me on a pedestal, if that’s what you’re trying to do. I’m just a human being. I made mistakes; I’ll make some more. Hopefully, you learn from them. My mother always said, “Keep it simple.” The older I get, the more I understand her: Cut away the fat. When you’re younger, you want to see, taste, touch.

JORDAN I concur.

WASHINGTON (laughing) There you have it. But when you get to be my age, you learn you don’t have to. I have a beautiful wife, beautiful children, a great job. What more do I need?

JORDAN And people like us, actors of color, we don’t get a lot of second chances. It’s a different type of scrutiny. Knowing it’s not all fair and equal, you’ve got to make smart decisions in the moment.

WASHINGTON I remember going home one time and saying to my mother, “Hey, Ma, did you ever think that I …” And she said: “Stop right there! Do you know all the people who’ve been praying for your raggedy butt?” You don’t get there by yourself.

JORDAN That’s crazy! I was just thinking: I’m going to church in the morning — because I know the people there have always prayed for me. Their blessings have protected me from terrible situations. That’s how I think about keeping it simple: remembering where it started — that village, that tribe that kept you safe.

WASHINGTON The way I see it, I’m in the service business now. I’m here to serve God, my family and young people of color in our business. I talked to Ava [DuVernay, whose “Wrinkle in Time” had just opened] this morning. Now, Mike knows more about what it’s like for younger folks today. There were no black superheroes when I was growing up.

GALANES And it was 38 years between Sidney Poitier’s Oscar for best actor and yours.

WASHINGTON And then something like five [Oscars] to black actors in the last 10 years.

GALANES How about opportunities for people of color?

WASHINGTON That’s why I’m here! That’s why I’m still in the race. And I’m passing the baton. What a lot of people don’t know is: When you pass the baton, you keep running behind the other runner, you don’t just stop. I’m like, “Make the turn, bring it home!” I like helping people. I want to see them do well.

JORDAN That’s why I want to produce so much. I like creating opportunities for people.

GALANES You were right out of the gate on inclusion riders, Mike. The first to say, My company guarantees that casts and crews will be diverse.

JORDAN That’s superimportant to me. No matter what community we’re talking about. Everybody should be in a position where they can win.

WASHINGTON I’m just wired that way.

JORDAN My path is my path. I can’t take nothing away from nobody, and nobody can take nothing away from me. I’m running my race. But we can still encourage each other.

WASHINGTON What’s the harm in that? You’ll never see a U-Haul behind a hearse.

A version of this article appears in print on  , Section AR, Page 1 of the New York edition with the headline: Lighting The Way For Others To Shine. Order Reprints | Today’s Paper | Subscribe

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